Marcus Hart (00:00.337)

What?

Marcus Hart (00:04.21)

Okay, so let's dive in. I want to give you the opportunity to highlight who you are and your credential relevant to this topic.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (00:05.902)

and I want to you the opportunity to highlight who you are and your credentials related to these topics. Yes. Thank you for having me here. I am Vailosa Thompson. I use she-ho pronouns. I'm here in South Carolina. And my professional background is in social work. I'm a macro social worker, which means that I center both more of a big picture aspect of things, looking at how systems

agencies, entities impact the individuals, families, and then how they react to these systems and failures. My activism work centers on disability issues, particularly the issues of much of the marginalized disabled folks like Black girls, women, femmes who are disabled. I've been doing that under my organization called Ramp Your Voice for 12 years now, so it'll be 13 in 2026.

I wear many other hats, being a writer, speaker, workshop facilitator, start planning to wear some new hats like podcasts, host myself, and developing a stationary line, things of that nature. So I'm a Jill of many trades.

Marcus Hart (01:23.888)

and thank you for joining us.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (01:25.666)

Yes. Thank you for having me.

Marcus Hart (01:29.374)

So let's dive in. The core question on everyone's mind is how does the weight of celebrity status affect the perceived ability of arguments they present on sensitive social issues like gender rights?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (01:35.246)

how they effectively perceive the ability of the organism to present in the sense of social issues that I intend to address. Yes, I think that we give a lot of weight to celebrities and what they share. in my viewpoint, celebrities tend to fall into two camps. People who have their ears to the ground, so to speak, and are progressive in their understanding of things, and people who...

show their lack of knowledge on certain issues. The latter group is a more troubling camp because they, you know, unfortunately believe what they're saying, absolute truth. And if you criticize them for it, you know, they can get kind of hurt by those criticisms. You know, I think that particularly now, you know, we want people to have a updated

progressive understanding of issue because it can really mean life or death. Celebrities have this very big reach. The fan bases, some very diehard fans. And we want celebrities, because of their reach, their influence, to be knowledgeable about things. With saying, great power comes great responsibility. And that is the case when you are a celebrity. Whether you want that role or not, that's what happens when you are in the limelight.

And I think that some celebrities do take that responsibility seriously, while others are a little laissez faire about it and are not as intentional to be progressive, to educate themselves, particularly when they may have fans or supporters who are in these marginalized groups that they may either intentionally or unintentionally talk bad about or say some things that could really be hurtful.

Marcus Hart (03:32.264)

Thank you for that insightful response. When we think about the architecture of social media, the platforms itself, how do they portalize the base like this?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (03:45.624)

Well, you know really we really live in a reality where people You know the general public doesn't really know how to research things, you know, we have these computers, you know in our hands access to them every day, but people still don't know how to Intentionally research on them to figure out what is factual what isn't

particularly in the era of AI deep fakes, that's especially true. People don't want to research things in a way. And many of them don't know how to research things. think us, older millennials, Gen X, we were taught as being some of the first users of the internet, we were taught how to research things. I think we see with the younger generations and also older generations as well, like our boomers, that they may not be as educated about how to

figure out what factual information, what sources of actual factual information that they can trust. And I think we see that gap plenty in people's inability to distinguish what's an opinion article, what's factual article, what's a deep fake, and so forth like that. Also people being comfortable being wrong, if they fail for an AI clip or some type of deep fake story, them not knowing how to take criticism well.

You know, that's also a fallacy in these types of landscapes. You know, and also people kind of come online to spread their thoughts as facts. And, and when you're telling them that they're wrong, they displayed this energy of aggressiveness in the online space that they would not share if you were in the same room as them. So I think there's a lot in ways that we have utilized social media. We have allowed social media to be this.

at times echo chamber of misinformation that has allowed it to be maladaptive or not as helpful and intentional as it could be. And sometimes we don't understand our responsibility as users to be open to learning, to be open to criticism, and also to be able to do better at the same time.

Marcus Hart (05:55.806)

We are now joined by Curly Holden who has joined us. Thank you for joining us. I'm going to pose the same question to you, but before you respond, just give us a brief overview of who you are and what your credential is.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (05:59.623)

Thank you for joining us. I'm going to pose the same question to you, but before you respond, just give us a brief overview of who you are and what your potential is. Can you hear me okay? I apologize for my delay. having some technical difficulties. My name is Carly and my background is I'm certified as a NeuroLinguistic Programming Coach.

Karlee Holden (06:10.654)

Can you hear me okay? I apologize for my delay. was having some technical difficulties. My name is Carly and my background is I'm certified as a Neuro Linguistic Programming Coach and a Somatic Experiencing Trauma Release Practitioner. So those are two. I I have, I went to UC Berkeley and studied psychology and I've always loved helping people get to the root of their problem.

Marcus Hart (06:12.818)

Yes, absolutely.

Karlee Holden (06:40.148)

Is that what you want to know about me? that enough?

Marcus Hart (06:43.646)

That's great. So, so welcome to the conversation. The question that I just last asked was, how does the architecture of social media platforms, or porolizes the base like this.

Karlee Holden (06:58.858)

Did you say polo- polarize? There's an echo. Is my sound okay?

Marcus Hart (07:08.094)

Yeah, I think it is coming in on the end. But we can hear you.

Karlee Holden (07:11.025)

Yeah, I apologize. I'm okay. Okay, as long as I'm not messing up any recording, I apologize.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (07:12.769)

Yeah, we can hear you fine.

Marcus Hart (07:18.739)

no, no, it would correct itself.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (07:18.862)

Okay, you were saying how does it polarize people basically social media? you know Tell me this goes in the line with what you're looking for, but I have two kids There's no social media in my household this only been and I by the way to Yeah, your name? Valessa nice to meet you Nice to meet you both. Thanks for having me We do not have social media

Karlee Holden (07:21.064)

Okay, you were saying how does it polarize people basically, social media?

Marcus Hart (07:25.724)

Yeah, the debate's itself, yeah.

Karlee Holden (07:27.601)

Yeah, you know, tell me if this goes in a line with what you're looking for, but I have two kids. There's no social media in my household. There's only been, and hi by the way to, what's your name? Hello. Nice to meet you both. Thanks for having me. We do not have social media in our house and it is the best decision we've ever made for our sanity and our kids. I always tell people, if you want to learn about someone, go to their website.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (07:47.523)

and it is the best decision we've ever made for our sanity and our kids. I always tell people, you want to learn about someone, go to their website. Maybe a YouTube channel so you don't get addicted to any shorts and scrolling because of what it does to the brain and the nervous system. I hope that's a good intro to how I think it polarizes people because we're so highly influenced, right?

Karlee Holden (07:58.297)

maybe a YouTube channel so you don't get addicted to any shorts and scrolling because of what it does to the brain and the nervous system. So I hope that's a good intro to how I think it polarizes people because we're so highly influenced, right?

And so to really learn, we're a big meditating spiritual family. So I believe to really learn and trust, have to listen to your intuition and know yourself. And so with social media, there's just so much pulling at you externally, right? I also have heard people say, and not to get into politics, but just to listen to both sides because media can also turn things around.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (08:16.782)

And so to really learn, we're a big meditating spiritual family, so I believe to really learn and trust you to listen to your intuition and know yourself. And so with social media, there's just so much pulling at you externally, right? I also have heard people say, and not to get into politics, but just to listen to both sides because media can also turn things around.

Karlee Holden (08:45.461)

So find the truth for yourself. But you're saying how does it polarize people? I don't know, am I answering or should I get more specific?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (08:45.87)

find the truth for yourself. But you're saying how does it polarize people? I don't know, am I answering first? get more specific. I think that's a good answer. I really like that answer. You've come in from the perspective of a parent. It makes you think about, you know, I think we're all of a certain age here, how social media could have influenced us and how we think about issues. I know

Marcus Hart (08:55.139)

yeah, sorry. No, you're in line.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (09:11.532)

We talk about the radical nature of young boys and social media, them getting in the red pill and sell information. Kids are very vulnerable to misinformation, disinformation. We adults are being fooled by things. Kids are definitely a target and pray for those things. So I really appreciate you being a parent that's very intentional about how your kids are using social media because it's scary out here.

You know, like, just to be plain about it, it's scary.

Karlee Holden (09:42.014)

Yeah.

Well, they're not using social media and I'm not trying to correct you. just mean you're right. And I wanted to clarify. So I have a four year old and a 15 year old. So the 15 year old, we let her try it twice. And I'm glad I feel like in life with all my lessons, I try things to say, hey, this, this isn't good. What it immediately did to her ego. So spiritually for speaking, going within is where the true joy lies. And with social media, we're telling everybody

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (10:02.09)

Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Karlee Holden (10:14.686)

Let's have more temptation, more materialism. It's just like the opposite. Now I'm only going to the negative right now. Like there are some very good things. Like I have it because I've published two books and have an online program and I love to help people know they don't need to take meds for their anxiety and depression. So I'm like, okay, I gotta have all these platforms. So of course, when I go to open to post, I make sure I follow voices of truth and light, right? So when things pop up, I see it.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (10:29.912)

Right. Yeah.

Karlee Holden (10:42.919)

But you guys, I got to the point where I hired someone, I said, you just post stuff, I don't even wanna look. Now, with certain news and things, I know where to go. So I think that discernment, right? If you're gonna have it, be very discerning. Is it making you feel better? And with our daughter and the way my husband watches news, there's no addiction, there's no scrolling. If you're going to look for something with intention, like a talk.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (10:59.072)

And with our daughters and the way my husband watches news, there's no addiction, there's no scrolling. If you're going to look for something with intention, like a talk, for example, the whole Charlie Kirk thing, I wanted to see the service. So where do I go? So I want to know what's going on with the It doesn't matter your political party, right? I want to educate my son. I want to hear. I want to know who he is, what's happening. So very intentional, right?

Karlee Holden (11:10.449)

Like for example, the whole Charlie Kirk thing, I wanted to see the service. So where do I go? Right? What do I want to know about the news that's going on with, it doesn't matter your political party, right? I just, want to educate myself. I want to hear, I want to know who he is, what's happening. So very intentional, right? Pick, pick what you want to learn about and then find those sources. But I don't believe, I mean, I just want to say this. I wish we could get rid of it.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (11:29.56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karlee Holden (11:38.299)

Because I watch kids, my gosh, we were at lunch the other day. I can't even give it any energy, you guys. I had to look away. There were two boys at lunch. Our four-year-old, put on a learning cartoon so we could have some quiet for a moment. But these young boys were sitting at a table next to me just scrolling. And the stuff, I had to look away that was popping up. was like, do their parents even know what they're looking at? Like, I'm seeing stuff that I know is materialistic. Like, I don't even know. I could just feel it. I could kind of see. And I was like, schizers. I don't want to swear on here, but.

Marcus Hart (11:53.438)

with the incident that he's rolling himself. I had a book play called Foster Loving.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (11:59.439)

I'm seeing stuff that I know is materialistic. Like, I don't even know. I could just feel it. I could kind of see and I was like, oh, shizers. I don't want to swear on here, but I would think to get rid of it. Yeah. And like it's sneaky in that way to where it's not always the content. It's commercials, you know, or things like that to where there's maybe some messaging that may, may not be great or parents may not know that exists. You know, it's, it's very insidious. It's very covert, very hidden.

Karlee Holden (12:08.997)

I wish we could get rid of it.

Karlee Holden (12:19.515)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (12:29.248)

in the influences.

Karlee Holden (12:29.501)

Well, parents, can I not, tell me if I'm being too rude or bold, but parents have got to be on it. That's our problem. It's not just the kids, it's the parents. How we parent creates the next generation. Say no, no, you're not, no, you can watch a movie. You can watch, you know, we actually just got rid of Netflix because we don't want our four year old to be confused by trans. He should be a kid. He's a boy. I'm sorry, I'm just, am I allowed to be super frank on here? Yeah, I want.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (12:35.244)

Yeah, they do. They do. They do. Yeah.

Marcus Hart (12:56.434)

Yeah, absolutely.

Karlee Holden (12:59.046)

Kids should play. When you're an adult and you want to start making decisions, because I've worked with tons of trans people and it's at the root there's pain. So what are we telling kids? Hey, you're born wrong. Like why confuse them about that right now? Just let them learn later. So what I'm trying to say is how we do it is we got rid of Netflix because Netflix was showing those messages and we decided to download Angel Studios, which shows true stories of history and inspiration and love and light and

I think parents gotta step in and keep it simple. You are beautiful soul child. You do not need to compare yourself. You do not need to change anything. Just know that you're divine. I think that would help our children and the world a lot. What do you guys think?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (13:28.27)

I think parents gotta step in to the truth. You are beautiful soul child. You do not need to compare yourself. You do not need to change anything. You know that you're divine. I think that would help our children be more alive. What do you guys think? Yeah, I think that's a fair perspective. I know for me, growing up being exposed to a lot of things, I think for me, helped me understand the world around me and about people who are different.

Marcus Hart (13:43.256)

Okay, so yeah, yeah, we.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (13:57.977)

people who may look like me, people that may not look like me. So I know that the parents kind of in my orbit really want their kids to know about diverse experiences, whether it's disabled folks like myself, trans folks, queer folks, you know, but they have the ability to have a conversation with their kids so that their kid can understand differences are not bad. Everybody's different. We want a world to where we respect people with differences.

And we want people to respect our differences and how do we make a more accepting world in that way? So that's kind of the different perspective that I want to bring is that I know people in my life want their kids to have a more well-rounded view of the world that they live in, particularly if are families of privilege and they really want their kids to be more tolerable and accepting and open to people that may not look like them in whatever fashion, you know, of difference that exists.

Karlee Holden (14:53.573)

Yeah, Well, can't we do that without confusing kids to change their gender? Because that's just way too young for me. mean, doctors make money off of surgery. So to me, I think we should show our kids, let's help third world countries, not worry about if you're a male or female, you're born perfect. Let's go. Like I've taken my kids to volunteer at orphanages in Mexico so they know what it's like to get back and help people that have had pain and suffering because I do the trauma release work. So I think

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (14:56.334)

I think we should show our kids, let's help third world countries, not worry about if you're a male or female. You're born perfect. Let's go. Like I've taken my kids to volunteer at orphanages in Mexico. They know what it's like to give back and help people that have had pain and suffering because I do the trauma release work. So I think anything to do with sexuality should wait.

Karlee Holden (15:23.364)

anything to do with sexuality should wait. And of course, except all people. Like I grew up in a very Caucasian white town and then I went to Berkeley and people would say to me, hey, did you ever grow up with black people in your town? I was like, wait, I really had to think about it. Cause I was raised spiritual. I was raised that we are all one. We are all beautiful. And my best friend in second grade was an African-American woman and my soccer coach was, but it took my brain because my parents didn't, they raised me with exactly what you just said.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (15:29.71)

Caucasian white town and then I went to Berkeley and people say to me hey did you ever grow up with black people in your town? was like wait I really had to think about it because I was raised fear five I was raised that we are all one we are all beautiful and my best friend in second grade was an African-American woman and my soccer coach was but my it took my brain because that my parents didn't they raised me with exactly what you just said minus you know there was no trans growing up then but

Karlee Holden (15:53.315)

minus, you there was no trans growing up then. But we are all one. So I didn't, I wasn't raised, so I think you can also raise your kids with that love and unity consciousness. And to me, I just, love people. I love all people, all, everything. But the sex stuff, I just put my foot down and say, that's too confusing. Cause our daughter came home from fifth grade when they started to teach her that. And she's like, I'm so confused. I'm like, yeah, sorry. We started homeschooling her because that's conf-

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (15:58.627)

that we are all one. I didn't, I wasn't raised, so I think you can also raise your kids with that love and unity consciousness. And to me, I just, love people. I love all people, everything. But the sex stuff, I just put my foot down and say, that's too confusing. Cause our daughter came home from fifth grade when they started to teach her that she's like, I'm so confused. I'm like, yeah, sorry, we started homeschooling because that's, I don't know about you guys, but I remember my brain at that age.

Karlee Holden (16:22.37)

I don't know about you guys, but I remember my brain at that age. I'm just learning what a man and a woman are, you know? I'm just learning about myself. I think sexuality and those preferences come in when you're an adult. That's my Terry thinking.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (16:26.382)

I'm just learning what a man and a woman are. I'm just learning about myself. I think sexuality and those preferences come in when you're an adult. That's my theory. Thank you. So if we can pivot a bit, but we're not going to move too far from this dialogue, I really like it. So we started off with the conversation about celebrity. And right now, there's unintended consequences.

Marcus Hart (16:36.222)

So if we can, we can pivot a bit, you know, but we're not going to move too far from like this, this dialogue. really like it. So like, we started off with like the conversation about celebrity. And right now there's unintended consequences for grassroots advocacy for any, any type of like topic that may appear divisive, you know, so.

What are some of those unintended consequences?

Karlee Holden (17:14.064)

You go first. I don't think I quite understand the question. Are you talking about how celebrities persuade people and there's no consequences?

Marcus Hart (17:23.538)

Yeah, their voice oftentimes becomes the dominant face.

Karlee Holden (17:29.36)

What are your thoughts? Can you tell us what you think?

Marcus Hart (17:33.65)

Well, I'm moderating, I'm not really going to eject so much of my opinion in this today.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (17:34.991)

I think my main point would be, you know, we look to celebrities as the forces of nature when they're really, you know, masters of their own craft. And I think sometimes we look at people in a bigger light.

Karlee Holden (17:40.845)

I mean, I think celebrities have a powerful influence, I don't really know. Do you have something to say?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (18:03.854)

than what they may be. We kind of push them to be experts on things. And that's not their, for many of them, that's not their strength. And I think sometimes we can be over-trusting as the public, as the audience, to what they say. And a little bit, before you had hopped on, I was saying how the celebrities kind of fall into two camps of people who may be more progressive in understanding, may be educated by issues, and those who may not be.

Karlee Holden (18:05.625)

Yeah.

Karlee Holden (18:31.187)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (18:31.97)

And sometimes the larger voices tend to be those who may not be as educated or intentional with understanding differences than others and how those voices and the responses to those voices, you know, kind of overshadow grassroots efforts that do want to push society in a more progressive, intentional light. And when we're looking at queer issues, trans issues, race issues, disability issues.

Karlee Holden (19:00.367)

Thank you.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (19:02.124)

immigration issues and so forth. So I think their responsibility is on us to not look to celebrities as the voice of authority in things that they may not be an authority about and maybe do a little bit more critical look as to what work have they done? Who do they work with that may be educating them on these issues? Or are they being educated at all? Are they just?

Karlee Holden (19:13.817)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (19:30.478)

talking and just talk and their talking reaches more people than what you know us on this podcast are doing in a way. That's the kind of look at it. Yeah exactly exactly.

Karlee Holden (19:38.479)

So I'm also, yeah, I like that. And I'm also hearing like, don't put anybody on a pedestal. Nobody knows, only you know, like empower people, only you know what's true for you. Cause your heart will tell you, cause you'll get this peaceful flowing feeling. And if somebody's saying something you don't like, your body will tell you, you know? So I think, does that answer your question?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (19:50.541)

you because your heart will tell you because you'll get this peaceful flowing feeling and if somebody's saying something you don't like your body will tell you you know so I think does that answer your question

Marcus Hart (20:02.504)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so with that, know, ethical obligations of the mainstream media outlets, you mentioned earlier about the importance of like, being able to decide what to watch when you're watching Netflix and, you know, and then choosing to pivot to something else, you know. So what ethical obligations does these mediums have to ensure voices of the most impacted people are not drowned out?

Karlee Holden (20:33.784)

These are deep, these are good questions. Like should they have, you're saying, guidelines?

Marcus Hart (20:46.686)

Yeah, ethical obligations, should they do more to ensure that they are walking the tight rope line of morality and ethics?

Karlee Holden (21:01.26)

I, yeah, I think so. I think so.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (21:07.534)

Yeah, think that, you know, media, I think media outlets do have a stronger responsibility because of the ethics that they have. know, journalism has a set of ethics into what they should report, how reporters should report things, you know, how newsrooms should report things. And that's a different regard. Like with my background, I'm a social worker. As a social worker, I have a core of ethics that I have to abide by.

to be in compliance on the state level, but also as a professional as well. There's some things I cannot do, some things I should not do because that would put me out of compliance that could get me in trouble. So I think that what we're seeing here, particularly over the last probably 10 plus years, is this eroding or dismissal of the ethics that journalism should have.

and we see it in what's being reported, you know, the whole fake news or AI and people not knowing what's real or what isn't, people not knowing what the trust when it comes to their news sources. That's pretty, that's a very big issue because then we get, you know, false information being pushed at the truth. That can be harmful to people. We don't know what to do in response. You so it creates this...

Karlee Holden (22:21.418)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (22:33.304)

Pandora's box of sorts to where we may not be able to trust our media anymore. We may not be able to trust our media to stick up for what is happening and call the truth the truth. Like we're living in some very challenging times to where the media is filling us. And I think that instead of holding celebrities to that pedestal that you mentioned, Carly, we need to hold our news outlets.

to a pedestal because they have a responsibility to speak the truth. They have a responsibility to be neutral and not influenced by whatever governmental powers that exist. And we as a consumer, we want to know what's happening in real time so that we can protect our loved ones, protect our communities, advocate or protest for things that we see maybe going on that may be filled up in justice and harm. Like the media.

Karlee Holden (23:02.669)

I like that.

Karlee Holden (23:10.743)

Thanks. I agree.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (23:32.562)

is the scope of that, know, can sometimes ring the alarm on what's happening. And when we have a corrupt or easily influenced media cycle, that leaves us at prey to whatever the bad parts that those power or influence may have for them to do upon us if we're not educated enough.

Karlee Holden (23:55.584)

Yeah, I agree.

Marcus Hart (24:00.834)

So when it comes to like verified non-celebrity experts, you know, we got a lot of people now who got the podcast mic. We got people who are bloggers. got influencers, you name it. What type of strategy shift needs to be, needs to happen in order to restore the context and trust in the public square?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (24:08.846)

You

Karlee Holden (24:25.844)

That's a great question, I don't know.

Well, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is we have free speech, right? So I think, mean, this may not be answering your question, but I think again, it goes back to people listening, because this is the work I've helped people get to when you heal your own traumas and your own wounds, sorry. You're able, like if you gave me 10 podcasts and I start playing them, immediately my body's gonna say, ooh, that brings more peace and love and joy to myself and the world, or it doesn't. Like I can just tell.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (24:30.158)

Well, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is we have free speech, right? Right. So I think, I may, this may not be answering your question, but I think again, it goes back to people listening, because this is the work I help people get to when you heal your own traumas and your own wounds. You're able, like if you gave me 10 podcasts and I start playing them, immediately my body's going to say, that brings my peace and love and joy to myself and the world, or it doesn't.

Karlee Holden (24:59.82)

because I've learned to meditate and really tune in and listen. So I don't know if we can control what celebrities and podcasts ethical, that would be great. Like if we could have some kind of guideline, are you saying almost like a constitution? Like this is how our country was founded based on these principles of equality. I think that'd be amazing. However, I don't know how that could happen. So I would put the power in the, is it the listeners?

hands where you're saying if you don't like what you're hearing, don't listen. If it's not bringing you joy and making you a better person to spread that love, because they always say if you want world peace, you got to start with yourself. So I notice if I go into a fight response, that's about me. It doesn't mean you can't speak truth, but if it's ever emotional, it means it's something in me I'm healing. So I heal that and then I can speak truth from love. And then that way we can all respect each other. I can, let's say you.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (25:52.399)

And then that way we can all respect each other. I can, let's say you, the three of us, let's say you two totally disagree with everything I say, but we're all three healed and working on our own inner ways so we can love each other equally even if we're totally different. I can have you over for dinner and you respect me and I respect you. Does that make sense? It does, it does. I think that, you know, I think.

Karlee Holden (25:55.903)

the three of us, let's say you two totally disagree with everything I say, but we're all three healed and working on our own inner wounds so we can love each other equally even if we're totally different. I can have you over for dinner and you respect me and I respect you. Does that make sense?

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (26:18.978)

just because somebody has a mic doesn't mean that they always know what they're saying in that mic. And I think that comes with that discernment that we have to have, know, particularly that we have as adults, know, or least hopefully should have as adults, you know, it's a little bit of educating ourselves on things. It's a little bit of realizing that again, unless somebody has a background in something that they have studied for a long time, whether

self-studied or self-taught or professional avenues of some sort. We're all just sharing our opinions on things. And sometimes our opinions, you know, I kind of like, you know, butt holes, everybody has one, you know, and we kind of have to discern, you know, whose opinions align with the values that I have, you know, whether it's how I want my community to look, you know, my neighbors, my friends, you know, if I have children or these children in my life that I love, you know, are these opinions help?

Karlee Holden (26:54.09)

Mm-hmm.

Karlee Holden (27:05.693)

Exactly.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (27:15.736)

helping to shape the world in a more intentional manner? Are these opinions and viewpoints creating a world where safety and community and care are considered second rate or are considered privilege for certain people to have, but not others? We live in a time to where we have to be discerning about who we are trusting with things just because they have a mic. And I think, you know,

Karlee Holden (27:44.67)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (27:46.015)

with the kind of non-celebrity piece, you there are people who I do great work with, you know, who I feel like should be known more in what they do, but because they may not have access to certain rooms or communities or platforms, people don't get to hear their perspectives. Whereas people who may be taking up a whole lot more space, then they should get the attention, get that reach, but their messaging may not be the most...

Karlee Holden (28:03.423)

Yeah.

Karlee Holden (28:10.634)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (28:15.042)

community centered, the most progressive, the more inclusive, accessible and so forth. So I think when it comes to perspectives, we have to be discerning as to is what's, with what I'm listening to and what I'm watching, creating the space to where my values, my morals, how I conduct my life, you know, the life that I want to see others have, is it leaning towards that or is it leaning towards something else?

that may disenfranchise us, that may put us in harm's way. And I think now, given the times that we're living in, that matters more than ever for us to be more discerning as to whether it's a celebrity voice or a non-celebrity voice, who are we paying attention to, what does that messaging means for the moment that it's happening in, and long-term. Basically looking at the consequences of things. Are we putting out things, kind of what you were saying, Carly, that's...

making our world better, that's making our world safer? Or is it doing the opposite of that?

Karlee Holden (29:19.236)

Yeah, so that your I like this idea start teaching children in elementary school discernment healthy boundaries and to listen to their intuition and if yeah

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (29:25.83)

Yep. like we talked that in pre-k kindergarten, a lot of adults will be looking at things very differently. You know, we're getting the tools that we need when we wait until kids get into high school or college or adulthood. For some of them it's too late because they've been influenced by so many things, whether at home, whether it's a media, with information or habits or patterns.

Marcus Hart (29:27.528)

Yeah.

Karlee Holden (29:50.547)

Yeah.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (29:55.535)

that's not helpful to them and they don't know how to unlearn that in a healthy way. Kids are, whenever I've worked with kids, and even my own when they come home upset, I immediately have them release it, find their voice, and they bounce back quickly. Adults get more traumatized because there's more programming, but kids are, yeah, kids are so easy to work with. They're great. They can self-regulate and...

Karlee Holden (30:01.555)

Yeah. Kids are, whenever I've worked with kids and even my own, when they've come home upset, I immediately have them release it, find their voice and they bounce back quickly. Adults get more traumatized because there's more programming, but kids are, yeah, kids are so easy to work with. They're great. They can self-regulate and as long as they have guidance, like if my kids are, since time they were little, something upset them, say, what are you noticing? How would you have liked to respond?

what can you do next time? And then their nervous systems go, I am safe, I am supported instead of multiple bullying or lack of boundaries. Now they have their voice, they have their high intention, they have love, they have healthy responses. I love teaching that, because that to me is where the world will change because you're teaching our children to know they're safe, they have their voice, and that now they can go in the world with love and respect in that way instead of emotional trauma and reaction.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (30:42.598)

I love teaching that because that to me is where the world will change because you're teaching our children to know they're safe, have their voice, and that now they can go in the world with love and respect in that way instead of emotional trauma and reaction.

Marcus Hart (31:03.1)

Actually, I really appreciate these responses and this insight that you guys provided and being able to be civil level headed people is we need more of that in the world.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (31:13.905)

Yes, yes, this has been great. Thank you for this conversation.

Karlee Holden (31:17.298)

Thank you for having us.

Marcus Hart (31:19.421)

Yeah.

Karlee Holden (31:21.704)

Totally. You'll let us know where we can watch it.

Marcus Hart (31:22.342)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But before we end, I just want one final thing from you guys just in 30 seconds or under a minute maybe give us one simple strategy or insight that the audience can take away today to move beyond this type of debate and engage in more productive discourse like the way we did today. And at the end of that,

If you got something you did recently or something you got coming up, you can add that too.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (31:51.5)

Okay great.

Karlee Holden (31:58.344)

would just say, I told my husband and daughter this too, I just did a little silent meditation retreat last weekend. Find five minutes a day, put your hand on your heart and go into your heart and just tell your heart, love you. Thank you for pumping blood through my body. Thank you that I get to be here. This life is sacred. Please guide me. So this doesn't matter if you're spiritual, religious, nature, you're talking to your heart, guide me every day. I love you, you come first.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (31:58.775)

I say, I told my husband and daughter this too, I just did a little silent meditation retreat last weekend. Find five minutes a day, put your hand on your heart, and go into your heart and just tell your heart, I love you. Thank you for pumping blood through my body. Thank you that I get to be here, this life is sacred. Please guide me, so this doesn't matter if you're spiritual, religious, nature, you're talking to your heart, guide me every day. I love you, you come first.

Karlee Holden (32:28.192)

That's what, and since I was a teenager, I always wrote and then I realized it was my soul or something bigger writing through me. Cause when I look at my writings, they make me better. I didn't write them. I feel like some higher part of me wrote. So I did publish that in two. Did you ask what we have? I have two books called, can you please talk to my girlfriend? And can you please talk to my trauma where I give as many healing tips for people. The books are to be of service. It's not to say, look at me. It's Hey,

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (32:49.964)

where I give as many healing tips for people. The books are to be of service. It's not to say, look at me. It's, hey, this is what I'd love to share that really I can change my life and others. Thank you for that. I think for me, I think in living the times that we're living in, just realize you still have power to change things, to speak out on what's important. There's so many issues that we can.

Karlee Holden (32:57.318)

This is what I'd love to share that really I've seen change my life and others.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (33:19.678)

be a change agent for if you're into climate change, you you have very powerful feelings about queer and trans issues, you're an advocate for that, you you want, you know, to support immigration, immigration rights, you know, whatever it is, there's a space for you in these movements, in this work, and people want that. Now is the time to be community, to advocate, you know.

At the time of this recording, we saw the no kings protest, you know, over the weekend. If you feel strongly about that, if you participate in those things, you know, figure out a way to get deeper into your community with like-minded people who believe in issues that you care about or want to see the world change in ways that matter to you. So we all have something that we can do. We all can play a key role in shifting.

the needle on things in the ways in which we want to see it going in direction of. For me, my activism work is always steadfast. We're right now working on the second iteration of my conference called the Ramp Your Voice Conference, named after my organization, that centers the experiences of Black women, femmes, gender expansive folks, because those perspectives are missing in the conversation on disability issues in a broader society, and we want to bring that forward.

So we'll be hosting that virtually on June 5th, 2026. So if you're interested in that, check us out. We have a save the date countdown on the website and we're planning that. And that's one of my passion projects that I have underway. But I'm on the internet webs everywhere under my name and under wrap your voice. And if you're into disability issues, disability justice, disability rights, know, definitely

Connect with me.

Marcus Hart (35:14.972)

Excellent, So for those who are tuning into this, we will have all of that information available in the episode description and also in the blog version and in the full feature article version of this as well. So for those who got a chance to get all the key takeaways, I provide a recap for that at the tail end of this recording. until next time, know, until next time though, you know, I'll take you in.

all of the information that was provided today and go out and be great. So until next time, many blessings, peace and a lot of love.

Vilissa Thompson, LMSW (35:54.162)

Thank you.

Karlee Holden (35:55.632)

Thank you.