PART 1

Marcus Hart (00:00.618)

Wow, just wow Dr. Rita Goel, thank you. Thank you for cutting through the noise with clarity today, with science, and most importantly, with compassion for the parents who are just trying to do their very best and what's best. And to the Transform You family, that is why we have these conversations. It's not about stroking fear, it's about replacing that fear with facts and with faith. Faith that God gave us wisdom.

and faith in the experts we have dedicated their lives, well, who have dedicated their lives to this work. You are not a bad parent for being scared, but you are an empowered one when you seek out the truth. If you are a parent or you just want to learn more about this balanced, holistic approach to mental health, I highly encourage you to contact and connect with Dr. Goel. You can visit her practice online at mindclear.com.

That's M-I-N-D-C-L-A-I-R-E dot com, where she offers a free 15 minute consultation. The link is right there in the soul notes. And for my family, you know the drill. If this conversation transform your perspective at all, don't keep it to yourself. Hit that subscribe button and make sure you follow us so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with another parent, a friend, or anyone who's been

caught up in all the fear. And if you are ready to start your own transformation journey to get your mind, your money, or your mission right, book a one-on-one session with me at cal.com forward slash Marcus Heart. That has been just the full enchilada of the show today. This is the Transforming Live Show. Be shameless in your faith, be relentless in your pursuit of truth, and I will see you in the next one. Many blessings, peace.

and lots of love.

PART 2:

Marcus Hart (00:01.098)

Welcome to the Transform You Live show, Doc. So you sent me a note a while back talking about that you're getting calls from distressed patients. So paint us a picture. What does that panic actually sound like from the person at the end of the phone? What you hearing? What are the parents saying?

Sharon Batista (00:13.784)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So this has been a really confusing scenario to get this information about acetaminophen through the media and then not know how to personalize it or sort it out or what it means for your personal life. But instead of it being generally confusing, for women of a reproductive age, people who are thinking about...

getting pregnant or they are pregnant or they're planning a pregnancy, it's particularly distressing because this is a widely used drug, right? We all have it in our medicine cabinets pretty much. We use it all the time, all ages, right? And so women are in a real pickle that they don't know what to do if they get sick and they are already concerned because women who are pregnant or are going to be pregnant, they want to be as cautious as possible. They want to avoid

They want to avoid complications. Like no one goes into this saying like, I'm going to be reckless with my health or, with my life future, like child. No, like, and women in this age group are like especially cautious and especially vigilant about managing health issues. It's a time where they're motivated to even do things that they had trouble doing before, like quit smoking or like eat, eat a healthier diet because like there's like a bigger picture, like gain.

that they're envisioning about the benefits of being cautious. the anxieties are also really high because they're worried they're gonna be doing something wrong at every turn. And so it's a really normal time. And even people who aren't stressed, they become stressed in this time. Yeah.

Marcus Hart (01:58.125)

So

Marcus Hart (02:01.964)

Yeah. Okay. So, so like the alleged risks that we hear the town, you know, we know it's unfounded, but you laid out the actual real world risk, you know, talking to the pregnant mother right now who was terrified. What are the medical dangers of untreated fever or untreated pain during the pregnancy?

Sharon Batista (02:22.54)

Right, right. I mean, you cut to it, right? It's like, there's not a no risk situation. And that's part of the issue that I think was swept under the rug. If you have a medical illness and it's untreated, like there's real things that happen in pregnancy. There's a higher risk, for example, of miscarriage with fever or with like untreated like infections or illness. And there's a higher risk of other complications too, right? And so,

There's not a no risk scenario where old school medicine was like, just wait the nine months, forego treatment, just tough it out. Well, that doesn't actually mitigate risks or harms. And so we're really talking about weighing the two out. And I mean, in pregnancy, there are real things that happen. People actually do catch regular viruses or other serious illnesses. They actually have pain, right?

So like the practicality issue at hand too about the quality of life of having those things and the consequences of not treating them and weathering a pregnancy and postpartum.

Marcus Hart (03:38.633)

You're definitely hitting the pain point right there, no pun intended. So why isn't the truth sticky? You got the New York Department of Health, the American Psychiatric Association, the FDA, all these different heavy hitters still having to release advisories on this. Why isn't the truth sticking? Yeah.

Sharon Batista (03:43.16)

Thank

Sharon Batista (04:00.384)

Why is it not obvious?

Yeah. Honestly, it's not obvious because the medical research is difficult to access and digest, if you ask me. And we have, I think, like really powerful entities, like in terms of like where the message is coming from. I mean, say like government, FDA, like it's really meaningful in our culture to get a message like that. And then of course, like, yeah, sure. I I love to think of the APA. I'm a member of the APA.

like as powerful too, but it's a different kind of voice that usually speaks more to professionals. And the New York Department of Health, right? Like they're doing the right thing, but like, again, like who's plugged in there? And like, like these are like competing messages. And so the regular person, even me, I'm a professional, going to literature and try to make our own opinion and analyze that, that's really hard and actually pretty impractical. I actually went to the literature because like your questions and...

And these questions that I'm getting from patients really motivated me because I believe in science and I believe in trying to be that advocate to help my patients know what the science is so that they can make their choices. But I found it dense and difficult to analyze. This is a very, if we say, the level of statistical savvy to understand the article. Not everyone has that skill, even trained professionals. So I think...

the accessibility issue is there, that this is not a transparent question that people can easily research on their own to be able to figure out what message they're gonna listen to or what decisions that they're gonna make.

Marcus Hart (05:45.325)

You know, but it all starts feeling like, like the lies just, I don't know, louder or more compelling, you know. So from a psychiatrist's view, you know, why does the fear always seem to win the algorithm?

Sharon Batista (06:01.005)

Yeah, yeah, fair. Look, there's biology about this, right? And like, we just say as human beings, like how we're wired, think of like the prehistoric ages or something, and there's a tiger and you're a caveman, cave woman, and you gotta stay vigilant because tigers gotta eat your dinner.

And so we've got that fight or flight reaction, right? Like we were programmed to be vigilant and to do something to protect ourselves. And it's no longer the prehistoric times. There's other kinds of threats, but like we still have that reaction in us. It's there for a reason. It's there for a powerful reason. And so even though these are modern times and we're real like analytic and real intellectual and you know, like, you know.

live in a civilized way, like we still sense threats, we still sense vulnerabilities and have to act. And so I think that that like fear response is what we're talking about, about like, you know, danger in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal or wherever you're getting that information, danger, you know, and we all have to like, whoop, do I have to pay attention? And what do I got to do about it? Right? Like we're all poised to like take action. And I think

Maybe even recently, like the pandemic, right? That taught us all a lesson, I think, about the power of this and the fear and the threat was real with COVID. And we all had to figure out real quick how to stay safe, how to take care of our families. So it's, I mean, that's a good thing, right? Like we all, within our abilities, did what we did to get through the pandemic.

Marcus Hart (07:28.236)

you

Sharon Batista (07:54.766)

So that's where it can be like advantageous, but it can be disadvantageous too.

Marcus Hart (08:00.342)

That's definitely practical and I want to get more practical because a parent who is scared of Tylenol so they think I just use Motrin instead of Advil. You mentioned the NSAIDs. Are those alternatives truly safer for a pregnant woman or are they just trading one boogeyman for a worse, very real one?

Sharon Batista (08:16.077)

And that's as we say in Turkey.

Sharon Batista (08:30.785)

Well, the study that we're talking about that is like kind of like what this warning is like kind of hanging on really hangs on acetaminophen, right? It's not really assessing across pain relievers, right? There's many kinds of brands and generics of NSAIDs, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Kind of remember that tongue twister.

There's many of them on the market. They're all generally safe, but the kind of number one vetted and still supported by ACOG and the APA, people who are treating women, GYNs and pregnancy, right, and primary care, they're still backing that as their first line for pain and fever. I think that generally the NSAIDs are safe, but in terms of what the first line

med is, right? That's what our medical community is saying. But I can't speak to you about like, are there enough trials to really cross compare? Because like that one that study is really focused on that one medicine.

Marcus Hart (09:45.463)

Yeah, so a word that comes to mind as we're is a great word, erode. This erodes public trust. So as a veteran, I see trust as non-negotiable. It's either life or death. How do you, as a doctor, even begin a conversation with a patient who's already walking and believing that you might be part of the problem? And how do you rebuild that trust one-on-one?

Sharon Batista (09:58.446)

Mm-hmm.

Sharon Batista (10:12.813)

Sure, sure. mean, medicine has like kind of a complicated history too, right? If we say about trust and I think it depends on where that person is coming from about they could have valid reasons to not have that implicit trust. I talked to my neighbors and we're part of a community raising, you know, families side by side and together and in the same classrooms and other places. And we all come from like...

different life experiences of what it's like to get health care and how you're treated. And I can tell you my own stories, which I'll save for another day. But so I think that we have to hear people out about where they're coming from. And maybe there's things that they've been through that did take away from that trust. I'm not going to pretend that.

we're going to brainwash everybody because that's not the world we live in, into convincing them to believe exactly what we believe. And we don't live in a country that's founded on that principle anyway. So like, I think we've got to kind of be practical and like work from what we've got. I hope that some people who struggle with trust, they can come to a place where they get the information to get, you know, quality care and of course, like not have a harm from

again, these things that are going around in our social media, like these different messages that aren't scientifically backed. But I also know that we're all individuals and some people are gonna interpret the data in different ways than I am.

Marcus Hart (11:50.817)

I gotta ask though, does all this just ace and offend you? Ace and offend you? Does it ace and offend you?

Sharon Batista (12:00.174)

I'm sorry, what'd say?

Sharon Batista (12:05.709)

Is it offend me?

Marcus Hart (12:07.648)

Yeah, I try to use a pun there, but it feels short.

Sharon Batista (12:12.039)

sorry. Yeah, I think I didn't get the pun, but we'll just chalk it up to me. Maybe I just didn't hear correctly. Look, personally, is it bothersome? Of course it's bothersome because I studied real hard for a long time to be able to help people. That's just the truth. I think about it every day. Every day. And so it's just really hard when like...

Marcus Hart (12:14.24)

Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Batista (12:40.265)

my community, know, physicians, nurses, medical practitioners, like, like, we're trying to do the right thing. So it is hard. It is hard. But I also recognize that, we're all different, and we're all going to have our different beliefs, our different, like, places we're coming from. But like, yeah, to be like, kind of like, treated in a way that

dismisses our intentions of doing the best by our patients, it's hard. It's a hard thing to accept.

Marcus Hart (13:13.844)

Well, you definitely listed some great high level solutions for these policy makers, for these health organizations. So we should break it right down to the ground. What can we do? What can this show, what can the person listening or watching right now do to effectively fight against this? You mentioned community forums a while back. Is that it? Do we just start talking to our neighbors? What do we do?

Sharon Batista (13:27.799)

you

Sharon Batista (13:41.228)

Yeah, yeah, I guess it depends. mean, a lot of us are not on islands, right? Like we are part of a network of families or yes, communities, right? And there's different ways that we all kind of interconnect. I think that the metal community owes it to the public to become kind of more vocal. And some doctors certainly have it. I'm not the first, not in the least, know, and I'm not the only, I'm not doing enough, working on it.

But there's people who like really take a stand for the science and for like better patient care. And I think that the medical community, scientific community should keep investigating these questions. Take them seriously that people have the concerns. Like I don't mean to just dismiss the concern, but take it seriously and investigate further what this means and who really is at risk because it's not a general risk. I think that those of us in families, we have to like watch out.

for vulnerable people in our families. like, you can go with your loved one to the doctor and like hear what they have to say and help them with decisions, say. You can, right? You can like do things to like read up on the problem. I mean, again, like I think that research literature is hard to read and interpret if you don't have a science background. So I think it'd be wonderful if more of that was like kind of like parsed and like digested and like,

distributed to the public. Not a part of them, but for example, Mass General's Women's Mental Health Division publishes articles all the time that are written for the lay person to be able to digest about these exact kind of topics. And they're just one, I mean, very prominent group, but they're trying to get that research literature from being dry science to being like,

more understandable. think we need more things like that that people can take and like, you know, use to educate themselves on the questions that they're facing. Yeah, this is some ideas. Probably fancier ideas out there, but that's what comes to mind.

Marcus Hart (15:54.165)

Yeah, I love it. You you're right on point, you know. And there's another toxic claim out there about vaccines causing autism. You know, it feels like, you know, these are all branches of the same poison tree. You for the parent who is just lost in all the noise, what is your final shameless faith in science and God-given doctors takeaway?

Sharon Batista (16:18.285)

Yeah, okay.

My takeaway is that we've got to look to the science. I think that we have a leadership and this is just like the situation in this country right now is just what it is right now. It would be different in a year and different every year as it keeps evolving. So we can't just stay stuck on like this one thing which is going to keep evolving. But I think we have to push our leaders to like

continue to vet the science and understand it, and yes, use it to represent our interests. But the same thing goes for the people in medicine and people in science. They continue to investigate these very important clinical questions. Autism is a really important concern that affects so many families across the world in this country. And we don't understand fully how, who's at risk. mean, there's some like,

science around it, but still we don't understand fully. We don't understand fully how to help people with autism. And so there's more that we can be doing to further the people right now who are going through this. So I don't know, that's my wish. It's kind of a big ask.

Marcus Hart (17:40.887)

Yeah, and we just got to get people to realize that, you know, we don't have to be separate on this issue. This is definitely a partisan issue. This is, you know, any ethnic group issue. Like you mentioned, is a global issue as well, because whatever happens in America, sometimes that sets the stage for others to kind of look at and question what they're doing. So, you know,

Dr. Sharon Batista, wow, thank you so much. Thank you for not just giving us facts, but for showing us the battlefield. So for those who are watching and if they wanted to get in touch with you or if they just wanted to follow, follow your work more, how would they be able to do that?

Sharon Batista (18:24.597)

They can certainly do that. I'm going to show my age a little bit because I am on, I'll call it all the social media. So they can find me online on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook. I have a website which is really about me and my clinical practice because this is what I do is I advise people on their mental health. So there's different ways I'm findable on the internet. But if I was to say, do I have it memorized how to find me?

I gotta work on that, but I'm there.

Marcus Hart (18:58.54)

Yeah, it is a tough one to kind of put together. You know, just here's a one link to get to everything. That's what I did. You I said, you know what? Let me just buy a domain, put my name, and just put everything there. So yeah, very interesting. You know, we're going to make it easy for everyone though. So, you know, whatever you give me afterwards, we'll put it right there and it's back in the episode description for everyone to be able to access it, as well as in our blog article.

Sharon Batista (19:02.955)

I know the handle!

Sharon Batista (19:23.873)

You're not. Yeah, that's all.

Marcus Hart (19:28.65)

in the resources section. So with that said, thank you again for showing us what this fight for the truth actually looks like. And to my transforming family out there, this is why we have these conversations. It's not about stroke and fear. It's about replacing the fear with facts and with faith. Faith that God gave us wisdom and faith in experts like Ms. Betisa here who have dedicated their lives to this work. So.

Thank you Dr. Patisa. Until next time folks, many blessings, peace, and lots of love.

Sharon Batista (20:02.67)

Thanks for having